The pain of wrong-doing

However, I can't seem to reconcile it with your basic, overall idea that nothing is intrinsically right or wrong.

Perhaps this analogy might help. Is there an objective, independent standard of pain? I don't know, but I doubt it. I think you would probably agree with me that there isn't. But you know when something hurts! Other people's suffering hurts me. When I think of genocide, it hurts even to think of it. I hear others describe a similar pain.

If we assume that Hitler 1) felt genocide was right, perhaps even intensely so, and also assume 2) others confirmed his view (which would seem to explain his rise to power), upon what basis, then, can we rightly say the Holocaust was "wrong?"

We can rightly say that we believe passionately it was wrong, because of the pain we feel thinking about it because of our moral sense.

If you think we're getting bogged down on this, I'd be glad to move on. I'm not a philosopher or theologian, but if you have any questions for me, I'll give it my best shot.

Thank you.

I don't see how the question of Natural Law helps. First, many people don't follow it (like Hitler), secondly, where is this Law "written"? Who says how we read it?

Steve, I really appreciate your willingness to discuss these things.

That is how civilised people should act.

I've always felt like it's far better to sit down and talk to one another, than yell across the room at one another. So thank you.

I may be an atheist, but I rarely yell :)